A SOMERSET West property scheme that allegedly duped the four major banks into overexposing thousands of investors to about R5 billion rand in bonds, has come under the spotlight in a sequestration inquiry in Cape Town
Coert Coetzee, who is the Chairman of Treoc (Coert reversed = Treoc geddit) metions it in passing in his own blog
I had a meeting today with my legal team regarding a newspaper article and as I understand it now, it is alleged that on a specific client’s bond application a certain bond originator did not disclose the bank’s required information to them. At this stage I do not know whether the fault lies with the originator, bank official or even the client not disclosing the correct information.
However, I am very upset and I ordered a full investigation. I will not hesitate for one moment to take swift and decisive action against the guilty party.
So does anyone out there have more information about what is being alleged? Did Treoc expose the banks to R5 billion in losses?
Update:
A report in the Cape Times shows claims that the Treoc duped the four major banks into overexposing thousands of investors to an estimated R5 billion in bonds. Its says Treoc Property Investments advised and organised loans for an inexperienced 29-year-old investor to about R2.9 million in bonds from different banks on a salary of R17 000. Financial records show that Treoc applied to four different banks for bonds for the Goodwood man on the same day, and got them. A former Treoc director, attorney Jose Delgado, who left in 2008, was subpoenaed to explain why, as a joint "independent" trustee, he did not advise the young man that he was getting into trouble. When it was put to Delgado that Treoc director Coert Coetzee was "selling fraud on creditors", Delgado answered: "You can look at it that way." Treoc, an investment company directed by Coert Coetzee, offered property investment courses to laymen on how to create and operate property trusts. Treoc did everything in-house: applying for bonds, sourcing properties, administering a rental pool, and offering related financial services.
22 comments:
Isn't Coert the same bloke who punts property on the kulula in-flight magazine? What a joke! In fact, if I recall correctly, his column started near the peak of the market, reminding me that when airline magazines start professing property, property, property, and professional sports personalities become 'property developers', then you know it's time to get out. If it goes belly up, the poor sods who invested here are going to wait a long time for this to be unwound.
I warned long ago that the Treoc set up looked like a potential disaster just waiting to happen for the SA banks.
It's members pile up these huge borrowings, often buying hundreds of houses, hiding behind some fancy double trust system which makes them believe that if it all goes wrong and house prices fall, they can walk away with no personal liability and the banks take the hit.
Some Treoc members were boasting about this at the time.
So house prices are falling ... the trust loop holes are being tightened up ... it wouldn't surprise me if the whole pack of cards is wobbling precariously.
Could this be SA's Sub Prime equivalent ?
Just looked around Coert's websites - he charges R3900 for his seminars - has had 20,000 attend (there's a nice 70 mill there for starters for him) - then there's membership fees, computor software to buy, and costs for services provided.
He reckons his members have 60 BILLION in the banks in loans and the way I see it, one trust owns the property and then as the property increases in price, the property is refinanced and the cash squirrelled away in a family trust which is impenetrable to the banks, even when the property trust is liquidated.
Coert boasts about how the family trust can't be touched
So there is the problem. 60 billion in loans, kept maxed out by refinancing, so the client keeps all the profit, but if it all goes all pear shaped, the bank takes all the pain.
Here's his exact words "Can you imagine how frustrating it must be for a bank and its liquidator if they can’t liquidate and sequestrate? That’s what is making them angry and why they call me names."
I don't know about you guys but such unsecured risks by the banks make me rather nervous.
I am sensing the same greed by the banks for housing profits that caused the US banking crisis
Greed is greed. This motherfucker is no better than Bernie Madoff. He just found a loophole and a law or two as cover for robbing the system. He should be hanged.
How about sicking the ANC witch-hunters on him? I could be wrong but I'm not sure a multi-million rand corporation run exclusively by middle-aged white males totally meshes with affirmative action...
It might be interesting for you to know that all the burglars and house invaders in the whole of SA (we're talkling 1000s of hard working, often brutal career criminals here) only manage to net about R500 million per annum.
One little white collar scammer has netted himself 10X that, all by himself.
I do feel a grudging kind of respect for this achievement.
The New American Dream: Default On Your Mortgage, Then Rent
It sounds as if we are finally moving beyond the hysteria that initially accompanied the mortgage meltdown. People are finally acknowledging that defaulting on your mortgage may be the sensible thing to do.
From today's WSJ:
People's increasing willingness to abandon their own piece of America illustrates a paradoxical change wrought by the housing bust: Even as it tarnishes the near-sacred image of home ownership, it might be clearing the way for an economic recovery.
Thanks to a rare confluence of factors -- mortgages that far exceed home values and bargain-basement rents -- a growing number of families are concluding that the new American dream home is a rental.
Some are leaving behind their homes and mortgages right away, while others are simply halting payments until the bank kicks them out. That's freeing up cash to use in other ways.
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-new-american-dream-default-on-your-mortgage-then-rent-2009-12
@Peter
That type of reporting of data you mentioned is the "internationally accepted standard and best practice" If you havent seen the shadowstats.com site you should take a look at how far off the "official" data is in the US.
It just shows one how rotten the all the systems are. Like Charles Eisenstein says, everything today is about spin, image and how something looks, not accuracy or truth.
Problem is that the reality on the ground cant be statistically wished away. People realise this and are getting angrier. Three cheers for the guy who whacked Berlusconi.
Claiming a "meaningful" deal to curb greenhouse gas emissions, Obama fired up carbon-belching Air Force One and raced back from the global warming summit to outrun a storm ironically tipped to dump a foot of snow on Washington.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/news/world/article237795.ece
Never mind that the States and Europe are having massive snowfalls with Germany recording the coldest October day ever this year. Wonder if it has something to do with the fact that there havent been any sunspots for...
So far in 2009, (through Sep 1) there have been 193 sunspot-free days. There is quite a good chance that this year will surpass 2008's 266 blank days to become the year with the highest number of blank days since1913. For this to happen, there need be only 60% of the remaining days of '09 blank
http://www.examiner.com/x-5182-Dallas-Weather-Examiner~y2009m8d31-Sunspotfree-streak-ends-at-51-days-just-short-of-record
Hi Ad.
Seeing as you think CO2 is harmless I have an experiment for you.
Take a hosepipe, put one end in the tailpipe of your car, the other end in the cabin, close the windows as tightly as you can and switch on the engine.
Wait inside the car for a half hour or so and then report back here and tell us what you observed.
Note: Might be dangerous if there are sunspots, so check beforehand.
@Benny
Carbonation occurs when carbon dioxide is dissolved in water or an aqueous solution. This process yields the "fizz" to carbonated water, sparkling mineral water, and soft drinks; the head to beer; and the cork pop and bubbles to champagne and sparkling wine. Ever been killed by a beer or a coke Benny?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonation
And before you start with Hansie Cronje style blame and demonizing carbon which is probably well on track to become satan in the modern religion called science, read this...
Carbon is the 15th most abundant elements in the Earth's crust, and the fourth most abundant element in the universe by mass after hydrogen, helium, and oxygen. It is present in all known lifeforms, and in the human body carbon is the second most abundant element by mass (about 18.5%) after oxygen.[14] This abundance, together with the unique diversity of organic compounds and their unusual polymer-forming ability at the temperatures commonly encountered on Earth, make this element the chemical basis of all known life.
And btw Carbon MONOXIDE is what poisons you not dioxide.
Sadly, I know plenty of people that were killed by beer.
But I gotta tell you, I'm coming round to your way of thinking, re: the snowfalls in the US. Take the CT weather forcast for Sunday for example - 28C. And the forcast for monday is 24C.
This is clearly a dramatic DROP in the temperature, thus Al Gore must be lying because he said the temperature will go UP. Are we on the same page now Ad?
I'm sure you know plenty of people that were killed by beer Benny, birds of a feather and all. Might explain why you cant see the difference between supposedly anthropogenic climate change and natural cycles...or the link between sunspots and climate.
Have another one while watching the cyclops in the living room...you see eye to eye.
Arguably a more useful activity than playing with the cyclops in your pants ,Ad.
Anyway, time to catch some sunspot free rays and a couple of beers while we thank our lucky stars for avoiding a greeny hell world thanks to the Copenhagen collpse.
The threat of clear skies and clean air over the vaal triangle has been avoided. South Africa's coal miners now see a way through the yellow murk. The threat of freedom from vulnerable and dwindling imported oil supplies has been avoided much to the relief of South African motorists. What would they do without their daily two hours in traffic? And let's face it, the light from those low power lightbulbs just sucks. Screw Al Gore and his hippy tree hugging hell.
Now that we're free from the "religion of science" as you put it, the only question is what we should replace it with.
Scientology?
Astrology?
Whatever keeps the little demons inside my widescreen tv working has my vote.
Its so funny how people know what kind of characters politicians have, yet they will still believe anything they say.
All politicians have to do is trot out the words hope, truth, change and better tomorrows and the sheeple go along nicely in an endless cycle.
To paraphrase Noam Chomsky, people dont think much for themselves, question or research anything, they just repeat what they hear or see in the MSM.
Chomsky also said:
"Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while maintaining privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists."
Would explain TPTB's reluctance to "sacrifice" 1-2% of economic growth to save the world.
I'm kind of gutted that you read Chomsky Ad.
Well Chomsky is fringe Benny....and should be read by all nutjobs who have flights of fancy.
Sunday Times, You and the Jake White Story is the order of the day in this part of the world.
This Coert guy is a sham. On his seminar doesnt tell you anything you can get from the book Real estate Riches. This double trust structure is a scam - may have worked in the boom years but not now - you keep piling on debt till it bursts. Coert will keep making money from his fees for the trust, and his software to unsuspecting investors. Beware guys, dont get involved with this company. I wish the banks blacklist him and anyone trying to fleece them with this type of structure
What a bunch of idiots on this blog. Have you ever attended one Of Coert's seminars!! If you did you would know what investing is all about.
Idiot number 1, propxchanja You will be an old fool living of a small pension one day! Word of advice, book yourself a course with Treoc and then tell us again if you still think this "Bloke" just punts property. You can even get your money back if you think it was a waste of your time.
Idiot number 2, Anonymous blogger, Why don’t you do the same as Idiot number 1 and book yourself a course! This so called "mother fucker" has made thousands of investor very rich and secured their wealth with the double trust structure. Pls note that this wasn't dreamed up by Coert but has been practiced for ages by the rich! This is no loophole you stupid Idiot, its legal!
Idiot number 3, Bean Counter, stick with the ANC, they will look after you. Dont even bother about wealth creation, just go and take what ever you want!
Idiot number 4, you seem to be a clever guy, why don’t you book yourself a course and check what Treoc is all about. Just one observation about the 70mil. If BP oil makes for example 50bil profits, do you think that money is going to one individual person or to the people that works for them and most importantly their shareholders?? Stupid idiot.
Idiot number 5, Benny, This white "collar criminal", works very hard to help thousands of people securing their future so that they don’t have to rely on punitive pension one day! Your grudging kind of respect is misplaced. Not to sure where you get your stats from but if you want to respect a criminal then just vote for the ANC!
Then my last note to all the other idiots i may have missed, This person you are all "blogging" about is my Dad and i know what kind of person he is and i assure you that if you knew him like i do then none of you bloody Idiots will be so disrespectful. Book yourself on a Treoc course and secure the future for your loved ones. Remember Coert Coetzee does not force anyone to buy property, he only advises you how to create and maintain wealth.
Coert you will get what serves you, you cannot lie with what you think is intellegance, read your bible and the book of proverbs will tell you all about wisdom. What is so ironic is that this bandit is making the most noise which alarms guilt.Why not just Sky write" I am Guilty" you fool.
Welcome back Idiot Number 2.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something".
For the second time, book yourself on a seminar and then come back and tell us what you think.
Hi everybody.
I have attended Coert's seminars on many occasions and still do. I was in a financial mess when I first attended. The results of his teaching was incredible. Today I owe several properties, just by making use of the information Coert shares on his seminars. People who are in trouble now were either greedy or provided untruthful information when affordability assessments had to be done. As with any investment, property investment must be done responsibly and with caution. So, while you are critisizing, we are getting rich. Stinking rich.
Be informed before you judge.
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