A small piece of news that wouldn't have made it into any South African newspapers this weekend: according to a UDC economist, property prices in Ireland are going to fall 80% from peak to trough.
Let me say that again. 80 PERCENT from peak to trough.
In case that doesn't mean anything to anyone in good old sleep-walking South Africa, have a look at the graph of the Economist's figures, and see which bubble came second to our own.
We already know that the UK market is in freefall - 15% last year, another 25% estimated this year - and Spain is in deep doo-doo, as its economy based on the bubble crumbles. Lots of reports of large groups of young unemployed people spending their days sitting in town squares. For all fellow Europessimists, watch Spain carefully: it has the real potential to be become a very nasty place in the next few years. Young + unemployed + Spanish + hungry = shooting.
Finally, nobody needs an introduction to the bloodbath in the US, where liar loans were invented and where the 2009 Depression was born.
So let's look into the crystal ball, starting at the low end of the graph. If the US troughs at 30% it will have done well. God knows how far Spain will fall, but let's be generous and say it troughs at a 40% fall. Experts are predicting a total fall of 40% in the UK, but the British economy seems to be totally trashed, so I'm betting on closer to 50%. And so to Ireland.
80% sounds almost loony, but you never know. Let's be conservative, and say that Ireland will drop a total of 60% peak to trough, 20% better than the UCD people estimate.
Alarm bells going off yet? They should. It's basic maths. The bigger the bubble, the louder the pop. The higher prices rose, the further they have to fall.
Which brings me to SA, the undisputed global leader in overinflated house prices. In light of the other bubbles, is there any reason to believe we won't fall by over 60%? 70%/ 80?!
After all, our market rose by 244% between 1997 and 2005.
OK, so here's what the bulls and John Loos and Andrew Golding will say:
1) You can't compare SA to those other bubbles because our banks are healthy and our economy seems solid.
2) We're different because we had a huge segment of the population suddenly getting richer (Black Diamonds and new black elite), and that would have led to a "healthy" bubble.
3) World Cup 2010!
The World Cup is going to do exactly nothing for our economy: it did very little for Germany, and that was at the height of the boom years across the world. By 2010 the world will be picking its way out of Depression, and nobody is going to want to buy a freaking house in crime-riddle SA. So you can ignore point 3.
But how about 1 and 2? Do they hold water. I think they do, but only to a certain extent. I just don't believe that the black middle class could create that kind of supply and demand by itself.
In short I think maybe about 100% of the 244% could be ascribed to healthy, normal growth (led by the new black middle class, helping SA catch up to a normal international standard), but that still leaves 144% of speculative madness. In other words, a bubble the size of Spain's.
We will be incredibly lucky to bottom out at 40%. I think 50% is more realistic, but 60% is a possibility.
Enjoy the ride!
16 February 2009
South Africa Had The Largest Property Bubble. Will Our Crash Be The Worst?
The following was written by regular reader Bean Counter:
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I always had the boom figures worked out as 380% for SA, 250% UK and 150% US. Of course, we have higher inflation than everyone else so that must be factored into the boom and crash years, but even so, I fully believe that we had the biggest bubble in the world so there is no reason why we shouldn't have the biggest crash.
Looking at the real price graph I have always predicted we need a 63% real price fall. If inflation starts to drop then the house prices will have to fall further to compensate.
I know one house in the city bowl that went up almost 1000% in ten years with only minor improvements. Are people 10 times richer now ? Of course not.
My monthly rental costs are only 30% of the monthly costs it would take to buy. It is obvious that houses are way over priced. Rentals reflect what people can afford, buying reflects what people can borrow.
Of course, to make such calculations will need realistic housing stats and the ones we are getting from the banks are just not reflecting the reality on the ground, so that is a bit of a problem in trying to analyse and predict the future.
In another Economist piece some time back they revealed that on the basis of cost to local incomes, Sandton was the second most expensive place in the world.
I believe that in the coming years property is going to cease to be an investment. It will return to being a place to live. Property will be in crisis for a long time, maybe even a couple of decades. When the present credit crunch crisis ends, a nasty baby boomer scenario has been predicted by an economist who has predicted these things very accurately before. This will ensure that property will underperform for several decades.
Property went out with a bang. The jury is still out on whether the world economy will survive the fall out. The people who think the jolly times are going to return any time soon and very misguided. It is over. Houses are for living in. Places to raise families. You want to make money ... then get a job.
spanish developers are facing some red tape ism with government regulations. repertory developers point the finger of blame at the planning authorities, local authorities and the government, while the government, planning authorities and local authorities point the finger of blame at the
property developers.
Wow, a small taste of how bad it is in Spain! You know there's an out-of-control bubble when they've set up spam bots to respond to any discussion that even mentions property in Spain. At least our EA's are too smug and complacent to go this far - they know the sheeple will obediently line up for the slaughter.
CJ, agreed. I still have a nagging fear that South Africans are too naive and easily swayed by advertising to realise that houses are homes and not investments (we are, after all, a country that has a serious gambling addiction and an obsession with buying overpriced brand new cars) but let's hope this is the start of a slow shift in perceptions.
Bean Counter, CJ, great posts! I totally agree with you both. I had also seen evidence that our property market overheated and overshot sustainability by a wide margin.
I am, every day, astonished at the hubris of both economists and consumers in this country. The word 'consumer', by definition, is an insult (and a warning sign) as it points to someone who uses more than he produces. I prefer to think of myself (and hopefully many respondents on this blog) as producers. Well I at least make sure I use less than I produce since I save.
Simple facts:
1] Over the past decade inflation adjusted incomes have not gone up, have in many instances gone negative
2] Over the past decade property prices have gone bubble and are now in the first stages of a pop
3] Mr Loos et al are quite correct about the supporting influence of a growing middle class. What they cover up in their spin, though, is that while demand was pushed into a most unhealthy frenzy mode by a roughly 300% growth (correct me if I'm wrong here) in the middle to upper middle income segments, the reality is that only the number of middle class earners increased, NOT THEIR DISPOSABLE INCOME. That has actually retreated due to inflationary devaluation of the ZAR's purchasing power.
4] It was the easy availability of supercharged 105% bonds to the financially illiterate at huge multiples of people's annual income that is responsible for the bubble. To gear yourself at 30% of your gross income is utter insanity even if you have a counter investment as backing security. Catching up with the rest of the world is somewhat responsible, but it is certainly not as responsible as the talking heads would make us believe.
5] Let me repeat myself. Gearing yourself at 30% of gross income is madness, and doing so without backing security is guaranteed trouble. Think about this one. Say a bloke earns R300k per annum. Very roughly he takes home about R20k per month. But on his gross he is allowed a bond of around R7500 per month (not that you can buy anything for that). But that kind of repayment represents 38% of his take home pay. Now add car repayments, med aid, groceries... see where I'm going? A 30% gearing is looney tunes! And I fear that probably every home buyer since 2000 is geared 30% because they had no choice in the matter if they wanted to own property. The only consolation is that rates are coming down.
6] The median house price index at the middle 500s is just so much smoke in an economy as ludicrous as ours. The staggering imbalances in income makes this broad sweep of a figure a joke. You have to separate the lower income market from middle and upper. The upper income market operates on it's own dynamics since buyers in that segment generally have cash, lots of it. The simple reality is that a basic 160sqm middle market 3 bed home will set you back an average R1.2 million, and that's the real median for middle income earners, at a 4 to 6 times multiple of annual income. It's even worse at the lower end.
7] A friend who works in the industry told me this weekend that they are declining 70% of all bond applications.
8] How many people out there have a 10% deposit?
9] I just negotiated my annual rental. I'm currently paying around 30% of what the bond repayment would be. They wanted to increase by 10%, I said no, take a look at inflation, I'll rather move on, and they agreed at 5%.
10] I'm under no illusion as to just how crazy SAfrican consumers are and their propensity for overpaying for rubbish and taking on unmanageable debt. Will the property market here go down by 60%? Maybe, but I reckon at 30% to 40% price drops you're going to see the crazies go hog wild to try and get bonds for bargains.
But, I reckon the length and depth of the recession that is only now starting to bite is going to bring home a stark and painful lesson about what 30% leverage can and will do in a broken global economy.
I run a website that tracks property market changes. Noticed some crazy drops
http://property-southafrica.net/
check it out, its still in beta.
Just a snapshot of todays business news at the Times...
"THE number of South Africans with impaired credit records worsened from 6 to 7 million during the 15 months after the National Credit Act was introduced, the latest quarterly report from the National Credit Regulator showed.
That 1 million more people with bad credit history equates to a 16percent jump, far outpacing the 4.5percent growth of credit active South Africans to 17.5 million during the 15 months.
“We can export much more but we have less farmers and not sufficient maize production, unlike before,” explained Kevin Lings, chief economist at Stanlib Asset Management. “There are less government subsidies, making it hard to afford farming equipment and fertilisers, which are costly.”
(please note we were a net exporter of fertilizer in 94)
“The retail sector has been in the doldrums for some time now, with real sales contracting by 2.4percent in the first 11 months of 2008. The decline gained momentum towards the end of the year, with the three months to November posting a decline in sales of 4 percent,” added the economists.
THE sale of private label goods — or in-house brands — is on the increase, with supermarket chains noting a particular up-tick over the last six months.
Nazmeera Moola, from Macquarie First South Securities, gave a gloomy view of what the future holds, pointing out to the finance committee that trade will deteriorate. She told MPs that there will be a net loss of US$3 billion to the trade balance in 2009, and that job losses in mining, manufacturing, financial services and retail will mean almost 270,000 people will lose their jobs."
...and remember I said wait for the green push in the next must have thing as economic driver which isnt going to save us?
"Samsung showcased its first solar-powered mobile phone at an industry event in Barcelona, promising a commercial launch later this year."
South Africans are stubborn..stubbornly optimistic or stubbornly pessimistic. Once they get negative which is slowly coming the prices will drop and keep going...
Judging from the comments posted so far, this topic is itching many people who normally simply lurk without commenting.
If it gets them talking, its a well targeted topic... Well done!
I have written about this blog, and posted several links to Capetownbubble from my own blog at:
gatvolkaapenaar.blogspot.com
I just wish I knew who the author is of Capetownbubble...
Why so secretive?
Hi Keith P, CT Bubble is an unsung hero. I'm one of the lurkers - can't use my real name because I'm a little bit in the public eye, and my brand doesn't include raging property bear! But I also think we're so indoctrinated into the myths around property that a lot of people don't want to provide their identities on blogs like these because it's almost shameful to be a bear. In many ways we are the heretics of the 21st Century.
I had a look at your blog, not sure I agree with you about market bottoms and suchlike (I think urging people to buy now is urging them to flush hundreds of thousands of bucks down the crapper, but that's just me!).
However one posting really made me sit up. It was an article written by 'Rich Dad, Poor Dad' huckster Robert Kiyosaki about the causes of the current crisis. I've read enough by him to know that he's a snake-oil salesman of the highest order, but I loved how he blamed 'the system' instead of individual greed.
Greenspan and Co. are the prime suspects for all of this, but surely Kiyosaki must be in the top ten non-governmental figures responsible for fueling the speculative mania that has resulted in the current meltdown? 'Rich Dad' was the definitive gospel of Buy Stuff With Other People's Money, the Bible of the Greed Is Good generation of Baby Boomers, and I would bet that hundreds of millions of dollars changed hands in the last ten years thanks to greedy little flippers reading his book and seeing dollar signs.
I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right, but I do know the media and the self-made celebs who feed off it, and I know that whenever I read anything by him I need to take a long shower to scrub off the slime.
I agree with you BC, speculation and money from nothing used to be the preserve of banksters and stock market traders but all of that has changed due to people like Kiyosaki.
I'm not a big fan of the industrialists of old as they were as rapacious as the banksters of today and suppressed technology that would undermine their empires (JP Morgan suppressing Nicola Teslas free wireless electricity for example) but at least they invested in industry and added value to the economy. Today thats too much hard work for many people.
CT Bubble, this is a perfect video in 2 parts which illustrates this post's question. Its part of a larger series which is fascinating and contains a wealth of info. Perhaps you might embed the videos in a post?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v2QynM0V2E&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0QStbuLRLc&feature=channel
Thanks Anonymous for those two great videos. I posted them on my own blog.
CIAO
Jibes,
Nice start to a site.
A suggestion, add a link to the original property listing.
To all the others, been following this blog for about a year.
Been waiting for the bang for 3.5 years, this blog does help give some honest perspective to the "real" world.
A wise man told me the other day, "the experts can agree on one thing, none of them know how bad it will get."
i agree with bean counter, ct bubble is an unsung hero. i stumbled on this site early in 2007. i had just arrived in cape town and i was searching for property in cape town having relocated from joburg. i didn't know much about property bubbles until i saw his work.
now i am a happy renter having avoided the madness of the cape town property market. i pay R5700 for a R1.6m apartment. being the unsophisticated sort of guy i earn 10.5% from the money market where i have parked the proceeds of the sale of my joburg house. the best decision ever! the missus was initially peeved that we didn't buy into the hype but guess who is the hero now...
i know that this is not related to the current thread. i just wanted to say big-ups to ct bubble, as they say, for keeping it real.
Hey Fidel! I used to think I was a fringe lunatic until I found this site and realised how many other people have similar views. Anyway, you've just made me depressed... a rent of R5700 for a 1.6mn property!? And I thought I had negotiated a sterling rent at R6500 for a 1.4mn property!!!! Well done sir!
If you buy a property it should be now not for investment but to make the place your own, a place where you can do anything in it, and not live in someone else's place. I rented for a few years but decided to buy and i have never been so happy. Enough of people telling you you cant have more than 2 dogs, you cant hang your washing here or there etc.... when you rent you pay someone else's bond really and at the same time you look after their house.
Just commenting on the last post:
I understand what you are saying, but you should never think about that you are paying someone's bond.
In a certain way I had a similar experience with the last place I rented. It was a nightmare, but this was because of the Landlord. I was really feeling like being his slave. Actually worse than that. Slaves did at least get something to eat for their work, and I had to pay to look after his house.
So I just got out there as soon as possible.
Now I am a really happy tenant again and pay 13.800 for a 4.000.000 property. And the landlord just leaves me alone.
From a pure financial standpoint it does not make sense to buy now.
Of course if you find your little dream home, then this is a completely different matter. You want it, you can afford it and you are happy with it. Great!
W
Hi Guys,
I am not in the property industry and admire the effort you guys put into the math of it all.
I do think that you are the best possible advice givers I can find. I currently earn R17 000 Nett. And am paying R3500 for a flat. I can do this quite comfortably.
I do however plan to get married soon and was thinking about buying a house. I know that everyone recommends I dont.
My basic question is: When should I think of buying? People have told me to wait 3 years... agree?
I am a South African living in Northern Ireland on the Irish/Northern Irish border. I therefore have been following trends in both the UK and Ireland, and in South Africa where I have five properties.
Undoubtedly, we in South Africa are in a bubble of epic proportions, which will burst after the world cup. The underlying fundamentals simply do not support the prices. I
recently saw a six bedroom house with four bathrooms on 4000m for 1.7 million in Ireland...that would be well over 4 million in SA. There is no such thing as a free lunch!!
I think its fair to say (echoing comments above) that houses are still an investment if you are happy to put in the effort to buy at a good price, get them rented, maintain them, collect the rent, remarket etc.
In line with comments - if you want to make money now you need to ADD value though hard work!
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